tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.comments2023-03-25T04:43:09.156-07:00PathologosIainhttp://www.blogger.com/profile/15197666388360786350noreply@blogger.comBlogger92125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-50271894681288861282015-09-23T17:24:21.941-07:002015-09-23T17:24:21.941-07:00This review that purports to review John Latta is ...This review that purports to review John Latta is just bitter shite recycled from oddbins of poetry wars. I hope he is bitter, why not be. But to strike down his crit by suggesting it's built on this bitter attitude is indeed shallow. He is a reprehensible person as all people are to some extent, this proven by our lack of careful stewardship of the planet and relentless other sins. However, his carping about the poetry of Charlse Bernstein brings new life to dead scrolls. Becoming highly employable is often a sign of useless digression. Yet, I hold, there may yet be Bernstein texts of some value. The conceit that Latta's lack of commercial sustenance can be used against him if he carps about someone's writing is just cliche. It would have been educational had you included the whole of his review of Bernstein's book, which is actually a good review. Afterall, it inspired your carping about Latta. Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-70729149936696461812015-02-17T16:07:02.419-08:002015-02-17T16:07:02.419-08:00Disagree, yes he mentioned books, but books can be...Disagree, yes he mentioned books, but books can be electronic too, and he didn't say NON BOOK reader, he said NON READER , so that resumes it allAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-82382994003899273992013-07-25T17:15:02.995-07:002013-07-25T17:15:02.995-07:00I sort of wandered away around the part when he sa...I sort of wandered away around the part when he said that you writing conceptual poetry makes it impossible for other people to write anything else, or causes them to wither, or, er, something. He'd already wank...I mean, name-dropped all over the place, and things were getting messy, and I was bored. Final grade: tl;dr.CSnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-1373524092724426002012-12-12T16:27:02.969-08:002012-12-12T16:27:02.969-08:00Pretty crazy list. (I'd correct one thing -- ...Pretty crazy list. (I'd correct one thing -- that list says "self-esteem" started in the 90s; it started in the 80s.) And -- this list reminded me that I heard somewhere (maybe in "No Direction Home" that there was, in the 50s, a list of ways to "spot a communist" and that list included -- "He may play the guitar."Carson Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11426505356407204408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-30466110556530126042012-12-12T16:01:59.932-08:002012-12-12T16:01:59.932-08:00Very interesting thoughts. The Streisand Effect: ...Very interesting thoughts. The Streisand Effect: new thing learned about today, Thanks.Carson Leehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11426505356407204408noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-19582730035837912822010-09-24T17:49:48.520-07:002010-09-24T17:49:48.520-07:00i'm not sure KRS-1 is "accessible" e...i'm not sure KRS-1 is "accessible" enough for Billy Collins.Iainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15197666388360786350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-88839787781380603592010-09-24T17:07:42.834-07:002010-09-24T17:07:42.834-07:00I had no idea - 37 songs? That makes me sad. Why d...I had no idea - 37 songs? That makes me sad. Why does he even have an ipod? Song lyrics aren't poetry. He's never heard KRS1.Mr. Stevenshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05405751648423854672noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-76660676786797156392010-08-09T10:35:13.728-07:002010-08-09T10:35:13.728-07:00Would this thought experiment make a difference? L...Would this thought experiment make a difference? Let's say we were talking about snail mail letters and postcards instead of blog comments. Would Silliman have any ethical responsibility in that case? Not a legal responsibility, of course--but ethical. I would think so. And I suspect that the evanescent nature of Internet communications make the potential loss of these archives seem less important that it is.Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-11910222447939125202010-08-04T21:45:50.879-07:002010-08-04T21:45:50.879-07:00This no doubt is the least interesting commentary ...This no doubt is the least interesting commentary to date.<br /><br />Booby prize for you.Carmenisacathttps://www.blogger.com/profile/11023871171456340729noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-42939457881576057382010-08-04T20:04:09.811-07:002010-08-04T20:04:09.811-07:00I find the complaining rather silly. The expectati...I find the complaining rather silly. The expectations that many people have about what Silliman should or should not do are pretty wild. After all, no one pays him to do what he does, he does it out of love for what he does. Just as do most of us. It's amazing to hear people complaining that Silliman didn't live up to their expectations, spoken or otherwise.<br /><br />Anyone who doesn't save off their writing, even the comments or threads they want to keep from, say, Silliman's blog, has no real grounds for complaint. The Internet, be it blogs or whatever, is the very definition of friable media. Yes, many things are retirevable for some time, and some things linger around a lot longer than others, but the assumption should always be that they won't. Save your work. Back it up. Make it a habit. Every single professional IT person I know says that to every single one of their clients, and yet many folks still seem to think that someone else will do it for them.<br /><br />I save everything I write, including those comments I made on other peoples' blogs where I want to save the discussion to consult later. I don't expect anyone to do this for me, I take responsibility for doing it for myself. The reason for doing that is that sometimes what you write on the spur of the moment, say, in a comment, might be something you might want to expand on later, on your own turf.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-50401059453173789932010-08-04T18:42:00.526-07:002010-08-04T18:42:00.526-07:00what you're describing is just called trolling...what you're describing is just called <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Troll_%28Internet%29" rel="nofollow">trolling</a>. those of us who're trying to have actual back and forth conversations tend to ignore your kind. we wonder about you: are you actually a "Lutheran surrealist"? is anything you say about yourself actually true, or is it too just specifically designed to provoke a response for "fun"? because that's kind of what it seems like.<br /><br />i'm not going to write you off too fast, so feel free to continue commenting on my blog if you actually have something to contribute, but i'm not going to be publishing anymore of your trolling.Iainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15197666388360786350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-82067593711169243242010-08-04T17:57:10.325-07:002010-08-04T17:57:10.325-07:00I translated what she said, like the way they tran...I translated what she said, like the way they translate what Democrats say into what they really said on Hannity.<br /><br />It's fun to do this, and honestly, I don't see why anyone cares what anyone else says.<br /><br />People talk a lot, and the point of it is that it can be amusing. It doesn't have to build your self-esteem. <br /><br />People shouldn't care what anybody else says. Talking isn't pointless, but you have to think about the points that are being made, rather than thinking about how well received you are.<br /><br />Being well-received is rather pointless.<br /><br />There are now all these brittle little communities policing what is said about them, and crying unfair about anything that is said. The Muslims go nuts if a cartoon is made of Allah. The feminists want a law that says you can't demean women. People are ready to cry racism if someone makes fun of what a dope the president is.<br /><br />Poets don't really matter much. The comments that were made at Ron's blog didn't matter much. A half a million comments were probably made over the last eight years, and he wiped them out in about four seconds.<br /><br />Who cares?<br /><br />None of it mattered at all.Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-73444259838747853572010-08-04T17:34:28.738-07:002010-08-04T17:34:28.738-07:00what's the point of dishonestly paraphrasing a...what's the point of dishonestly paraphrasing an opinion Jessica Smith expressed on her blog just to make her look selfish? she really never said anything like that, and i believe that little purposeful misunderstanding of what Jessica actually said is one of the sort of things that made her express reluctance to participate in the larger poetry community.<br /><br />why engage with a community of people that aren't going to engage with what you express on honest terms? why talk to people who will just end up hearing whatever they want to hear?<br /><br />Silliman's blog <i>will</i> likely lose some readers (but he'll certainly gain some too). mostly he'll only lose the sort of people who were only there so they could say something and have a thousand or so people read it. not a big loss really. some earnest voices may leave too, but i know plenty of people who stopped reading his blog because of the comments. those people will likely trickle back.Iainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15197666388360786350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-82093255487404547892010-08-04T10:15:51.206-07:002010-08-04T10:15:51.206-07:00Will to power was always there in the comments box...Will to power was always there in the comments box, but so was the wish to remove the comments box (Jessica Smith said that unless all of poetry readers approved of her work she just couldn't go on!), and thus the silencing of all poetry readers who didn't approve of her!<br /><br />I didn't care one way or the other about her, honestly.<br /><br />I think it's wonderful that he capped the comments box, and killed eight years of discussion at one stroke.<br /><br />There were some gems in there, but it was mostly a conversation carried on for fun, with the will to power as a constant menace just behind that.<br /><br />Even in poetry, or perhaps especially in poetry, will to power is always very much the greatest motivation.<br /><br />I think the thing that's funniest is that now no one will read Ron's blog any more. He thinks it was all about him, but it was actually about his comments box.<br /><br />It was the only chance any of us ever had to talk back to the LANGUAGE police. It was like Glasnost.Kirby Olsonhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05952289700191142943noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-40206032541411202132010-08-04T09:00:23.966-07:002010-08-04T09:00:23.966-07:00I think your thoughts here are pretty insightful. ...I think your thoughts here are pretty insightful. In my own experience, for reasons mostly having to do with the dominance of vitriol in all online poetic forums of late (I regret Ron's choice to shut down his comments but I sure respect it), I pretty much turned my back in the past year on all the online poetry forums I used to participate in. I still have my own blog (which almost no one reads, which is just fine LOL). The last straw for me was when I got banned from a poetry board that I had specifically been invited to join; I was basically banned for politely disagreeing with the forum owner in many discussions about poetry, and poems. Sometimes people get strange, and those who you thought were friends go weird, the rules change, and you find yourself up against the wall. I think your example of someone telling you not to discuss his ideas on YOUR blog is pretty hilarious, though, in a bizarre and extreme way.<br /><br />The Harriet blog comments were dominated by curmudgeons, though. Sometimes I tired to make comments that were about the topic itself, which usually got ignored. There was a lot of ego-based posturing. And that voting system was one of the stupidest ideas I've ever seen online—and the results were predictable, to be blunt. So I didn't take Harriet's decisions very seriously to begin with. Ron's comment stream at least had some meat in the discussions, even when they went bizarro.Art Durkeehttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07463180236975988432noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-21132956009607959732010-08-04T00:02:48.975-07:002010-08-04T00:02:48.975-07:00Heh! Though Jane hasn't told you about the EPI...Heh! Though Jane hasn't told you about the EPIC SPATS. <br /><br />Unfortunately Cyril Connolly's description of poets being like hyenas round a dried-up watering hole is still pretty accurate. I heard the comments and messages were getting pretty ugly at Harriet, and I can imagine that: even on my own blog it sometimes gets a bit vitriolic and personal. If you put your head above the parapet, someone will shoot it off. <br /><br />Now, Silliman's been doing it for years. It may not cost him anything but he certainly isn't getting paid for it. Ditto me. I don't publish the abusive comments, then I get streams of increasingly abusive comments attacking me for "censoring" the commenter. It can go on for days! No, comments alone won't "hurt" you, but they don't exactly make your day, and in the end, if you're running a blog on your own steam, in your own house, who needs it? And as for Poetry, well, I'm sure they just thought there might be better things to do with the Lilly money and with everyone's time.Ms Baroquehttp://baroqueinhackney.wordpress.comnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-19401480801071867782010-08-03T15:22:27.605-07:002010-08-03T15:22:27.605-07:00thanks Jane, i'll check it out!thanks Jane, i'll check it out!Iainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15197666388360786350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-46389437147399267112010-08-03T15:20:54.109-07:002010-08-03T15:20:54.109-07:00Try the British-based Poets on Fire forum. Real na...Try the British-based Poets on Fire forum. Real names must be used and all membership applications approved and identities proved before new members are allowed to post. This almost guarantees an absence of idiots and insulting comments. Though one or two still sneak through occasionally!<br /><br />http://s11.invisionfree.com/Poets_On_Fire/index.phpJane Hollandhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15590668593487445482noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-29567344974807175862010-08-03T13:43:44.824-07:002010-08-03T13:43:44.824-07:00I obviously think comments are important to bloggi...I obviously think comments are important to blogging. Or else, why would I be leaving one, right? Sad that any blogging community gets backed into that corner by what I'm assuming is a minority of loud voices.Robert Lee Brewerhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/03733003865003484352noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-42606506428375173292010-08-03T12:57:14.787-07:002010-08-03T12:57:14.787-07:00no problem, Steven.no problem, Steven.Iainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15197666388360786350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-64936617072032478802010-08-03T12:50:03.860-07:002010-08-03T12:50:03.860-07:00I owe you a lunch, even a dinner, if you are ever ...I owe you a lunch, even a dinner, if you are ever in San Francisco!<br /><br />In other words, and also, Big Thanks!Steven Famahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13733977161680651117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-64619373380766422092010-08-03T10:54:28.668-07:002010-08-03T10:54:28.668-07:00"They rarely lead to much insight..."
W..."They rarely lead to much insight..."<br /><br />Well sure, with that attitude. For me, with commenting available, the attentive blogger can always curate and attract conversation of high value. To put it in your terms, DEP, insight is possible, and increasingly so with effort. Without commenting, it is definitely impossible, and is shunted to... where? It costs Ron nothing to keep it, except perhaps the esteem of readers driven away by repellent comments. I don't know how greatly we should value the esteem of people who can't make a distinction between the author of the blog and the author of a comment, however.<br /><br />Some of the literary relationships I value most were discovered after I or they followed trails whose heads were located in blog comment threads.Zachary Boshttps://www.blogger.com/profile/07381974131762307270noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-81576817508099935702010-08-03T10:39:55.752-07:002010-08-03T10:39:55.752-07:00certainly Steven,
i found the link you requested ...certainly Steven,<br /><br />i found the link you requested by searching google:<br /><br />putting "site:ronsilliman.blogspot.com" (no quotes) into google will limit your search results to Silliman's blog (or any url you plug in after "site:"). i also used added "inurl:2007" to my search, which searches only for results that have "2007" in the url, knowing that blogspot puts the date a blog post was published into its url.<br /><br />i searched: <a href="http://www.google.com/search?q=laura+moriarty+inurl%3A2007+site%3Aronsilliman.blogspot.com&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:en-US:official&client=firefox-a" rel="nofollow">laura moriarty inurl:2007 site:ronsilliman.blogspot.com</a><br /><br />there's also a "link" link (sometimes called "permalink") at the bottom of each post which will take you to its unique url.<br /><br />let me know if i still haven't answered your question.Iainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15197666388360786350noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-43578243109141375702010-08-03T10:18:54.949-07:002010-08-03T10:18:54.949-07:00Thanks Iain, this is very helpful. Yep, there'...Thanks Iain, this is very helpful. Yep, there's a three month window for anything to be copied and archived via the Google cache.<br /><br />My challenge in lining to with Silliman blog posts recently has been getting a specific URL. This since he went to archiving posts on his site in weekly chunks. I can't figure out how to get a URL for a specific date, as you did here for the Moriarty post I asked about. <br /><br />I hate to ask you to do more than you've already done (since that's a lot), and I wouldn't ask if I didn't think I'd done due diligence in trying to figure it out myself, but I have, and I remain stumped. So if you can (please), I beg of thee.<br /><br />I don't intend to archive old comments, but I do like to link back in my own blog posts to older posts of Ron, and can not do it now, because I can't figure out how to get a specific URL.Steven Famahttps://www.blogger.com/profile/13733977161680651117noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-4936176559695627707.post-71094450642664113782010-08-03T09:38:46.470-07:002010-08-03T09:38:46.470-07:00you're absolutely right Steven, nothing lasts ...you're absolutely right Steven, nothing lasts forever. i was only trying to point out that the content on the internet isn't quite as ephemeral as many people think provided you know how to search (and i feel i only really know the basics).<br /><br />the comments you're looking for can be <a href="http://webcache.googleusercontent.com/search?q=cache:VCX6cUCJAxwJ:ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/10/laura-moriartys-air-force-just-out-from.html+http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/10/laura-moriartys-air-force-just-out-from.html&cd=2&hl=en&ct=clnk&gl=us&client=firefox-a" rel="nofollow">found here</a>.<br /><br />all i did was take the url you wanted the comments for "http://ronsilliman.blogspot.com/2007/10/laura-moriartys-air-force-just-out-from.html" and did a google search, clicking on the cache link underneath the search result (sorry to explain if you know that already).<br /><br />unfortunately, you're right, i couldn't find the same url on wayback or on gigablast.<br /><br />however, as far as google cache goes, yes they only have it for three months back, but that's not for webpages that were <i>created</i> three months back, it's for webpages that <i>existed</i> three months back. so there's still time to archive those comments if people feel the need to.Iainhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/15197666388360786350noreply@blogger.com